A day in the life of… Interview with Cecilia Danesi, researcher and disseminator in artificial intelligence

Today we learn more about Cecilia Danesi, researcher and disseminator in artificial intelligence

In our section ‘A day in the life of…’, it is the turn of Cecilia Celeste Danesi, researcher at the Institute of European Studies and Human Rights of the Pontifical University of Salamanca (UPSA) and professor at the Faculty of Law of the University of Buenos Aires. She also serves as the coordinator of the Innovation and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory (IALAB) at the Law School of the University of Buenos Aires.

Her quest for knowledge took her to Europe, where she completed her PhD and wrote “El Imperio de los Algoritmos” (“The Empire of Algorithms”), a book that explores the impact of AI on society, especially on gender and Human Rights issues.

Today we share her answers in a new installment of “A day in the life of…“.

What is the first thing you do when you get to the office or start your workday?

It depends a little bit on where I am, because I have to admit that I don’t have a very routine life, I travel a lot for work, so it depends on whether I’m at the university or if I’m traveling.

Let’s assume it’s a typical day at the university. I wake up, have breakfast, then head to the university and the first thing I do is answer emails. Sometimes, I have meetings with the team, usually at the beginning of the week, to organize, for example, content for social media or discuss ongoing projects.

Another thing I do on a daily basis is staying informed. Since I work in areas such as technology, innovation and artificial intelligence, the need for updating is permanent, almost second by second. It forces you to start every day by making a kind of backup of whatever is going on.

What role does communication play in your day-to-day work? Do you have any tips for disseminating artificial intelligence content?

For me, communication plays a very important role. Although I am an academic, I maintain that the importance, that is, the meaning of what we do as academics in the university is that these papers or scientific research reach the community, that they are disseminated and that they can be transmitted.

So, for me, communication is very important in the sense of being able to effectively convey, translate, and share our research and all the work we do from the academic side in clear and accessible language.

And look, a piece of advice, I come from the field of law, where I worked 14 years in the Judiciary, and there we speak very complex, even sometimes it was difficult for me to understand what we were saying or in what sense. There is a bad belief that the more difficult and complex you speak, the more you seem to know or the higher your content is, and I don’t think this is the case. Thus, it was an exercise I did because I had to transition from what I had been taught to what I believe today, which is that knowledge is collaborative, that knowledge is built from different disciplines, from different visions. Communication is key for that.

What impact do you think artificial intelligence has and will have on the legal sector?

Huge, but not only in the legal sector. Artificial intelligence has arrived to radically change our lives, what we do, even what we don’t do and are not aware of. This generates a paradigm shift in the way we develop the most everyday tasks, and everything is replicated. The legal sector is included from a lot of aspects, so I believe the impact is huge.

How has technology transformed the legal sector since you started your professional life?

Well, let’s see, back in my day, when I was 18 years old and started working in the judiciary, obviously we were already using a computer and a system, but it was always a very old system. I don’t think the judiciary has ever been known for its innovation or embrace of technology. I think that is a pending debt that exists.

So, it was precisely this lack of technology and innovation that led me to specialize in artificial intelligence and seek ways to improve, along with technology, the delivery of justice service, which was what I was doing at the time.

What is the biggest learning you have brought from your current position and throughout your career?

The greatest learning, and the one I continue to learn from, is frustration. In other words, what I learn from frustration, and I’ll give you an example. One usually shares, or perhaps others usually see, one´s achievements, but they do not see all the frustrations, rejections or things that do not turn out as one imagined.

So, I don’t know, for example, I have obtained many scholarships, but it doesn’t compare with the number I’ve applied for. I’ve applied to numerous ones I have been rejected a lot. So, that frustration serves as motivation to keep trying, getting back up and moving on. I think it’s “persevere and you will succeed”, isn’t it? That’s a very important motto that we must follow.

And another thing is perseverance because when doors close on us, when we get frustrated, sometimes we feel like giving up. I am going to tell you a phrase that might not sound very academic or appropriate for an interview, but well, it is said that “he who doesn’t cry, doesn’t nurse.” And to me, that phrase is perfect, because we have to keep pushing foward, complain, be present... Many times, I have submitted for tenders, applied for awards, essays, consulting, whatever, and the first time I did not win, nor the second time, but eventually, on the third attempt, I succeeded. So, I think it is good to keep on trying.

What is the weirdest thing that has happened to you in the office or in the profession?

I don’t know if “weird” is the right word, but a common denominator that has happened to me over the years is that there are many people who are dedicated to disqualifying what others do. So, I always tell the anecdote of when I started to specialize in artificial intelligence about 10 years ago, I was told “oh, this is never going to reach our countries”, “you are studying a subject that is super theoretical and has no practical application” or “it does not make much sense to talk about this”.

And if you echo and take all those comments, you would to be guided by the fact that they are the most listened to. So, it’s a bit like what we were saying in the previous question, isn’t it? To keep trying and to keep going forward, and if it goes wrong, let it be because of a decision you made, not something others told you. So, I would say that I don’t know if it’s the weirdest thing, but receiving comments that are not very encouraging for what you are undertaking.

From your teaching role, how can new law educators adapt to this new learning change that inevitably makes use of AI?

The first thing is acceptance, because you may find it funny, but I still hear teachers, regardless of their age or educational level, say “don’t come to me and talk about artificial intelligence because I’m not interested in that and I’m not going to study it”. Of course, but by doing so, you are condemning your students to remain uninformed, to miss out on learning, and to not to use this tool correctly, because young people are the ones who use and know how to use artificial intelligence the most.

So, we have a responsibility as educators to accompany them in this process and to teach them the risks that this tool also has, encouraging them to make conscious use of it. The fact of saying, “no, I resist artificial intelligence”, is very detrimental to students. Therefore, I believe the first step is acceptance, followed by becoming informed and studying.”

I believe that we teachers have a duty to study continuously. We have to be the first students, because that is the way we have to make sure that we can transmit knowledge in the most current and verified way possible. This is especially important in modern societies, where there is a high volume of information and data, and everything, that has to be checked and reviewed. So, I think that educators in general, not just law educators, have to first, accept the new paradigm and second, get involved, get into this new paradigm.

Which technological tools could be implemented by legal professionals who are beginning to understand the need to adapt to this new reality?

First, there are tools that are already available, such as blockchain, as smart contracts or AI in the search for smart search engines to look for case law or to map out the strategy of a trial, analyze contracts, make suggestions for pleadings, contracts, etc. I think we are already in the era of generative AI, where we can with ChatGPT or with other models, start to create or get advantages from technology. I listen to professionals from any discipline who approach me and tell me that they thought of using ChatGPT for tasks I had never considered. Everyone can shape their own professional environment, co-created or supplemented with the benefits of artificial intelligence.

Artificial intelligence challenges and questions us: how can we keep up with this new technological revolution and not feel displaced?

We may experience feelings of frustration or being replaced. For instance, aside from artificial intelligence, we encounter this when a task in our job is reassigned to someone else because that person performs it better, or when someone else is promoted. Whenever these situations occur, we may feel frustrated or disheartened, leading to emotions such as anger or envy. Therefore, I believe it’s important to acknowledge and accept these feelings as normal occurrences that can happen to us. I imagine translators, which is one of the disciplines most affected by artificial intelligence, will logically feel fear or concern for their jobs because this is inevitable, and it is already happening.

The issue is how we manage that feeling and what we can do. So, this is where I say, well, let’s partner with technology. I mean, no matter how much I try to avoid artificial intelligence in my life, people are still going to use it and it’s still going to be happening.

How can I align myself with this technology to improve my productivity, creativity and my work performance? The first step is once again to accept that this is happening, that it is a reality and that even if we do not want to acknowledge it, it is there, it exists. The second step is to train ourselves to be able to take advantage of it. I always say that, in the future, the most successful professionals will be those who know and learn to complement themselves with technology. Why? Because they will be faster, more efficient, and they will be able to produce more and better. Therefore, it is very important to have this knowledge of technology to empower ourselves.

In your book “The Empire of Algorithms” you talk from the perspective of gender and biases in AI. How do you think the lack of diversity that also exists in this field could be addressed/overcome?

Precisely what the book invites us to do is first to raise awareness and knowledge about these biases in artificial intelligence and finally, in the last chapter, it provides insights on how we can have a more diverse, more ethical artificial intelligence. There are different aspects to take into account.

I think one is, and very important, training in these issues. Being aware that technology carries biases, that these biases can have enormous consequences in society. We have to work on this so that this does not continue to happen. So, training, reading is always a good exercise. Today we have material everywhere to be part of this transformation.

One tip I can give you is, for example, that in AI issues it is necessary to be trained in ethical issues of social sciences and human rights. This is why we, at the Pontifical University of Salamanca, have a master’s degree in Ethical Governance of Artificial Intelligence. In this master’s degree we train professionals from the most diverse disciplines (doctors, engineers, programmers, lawyers, sociologists, linguists, etc.) in issues of artificial intelligence and ethical governance of artificial intelligence.

In addition, there needs to be more diversity in technology development teams. There is a very low percentage of women in artificial intelligence and, if we talk about other diversities, I can tell you that it is almost nil. We need the groups that develop technology, the teams of developers and programmers, to have diversity and to have knowledge of ethical governance issues in artificial intelligence.